Best of all times

[{>FuRY<} Viktor]

Not my problem! You should hangout with more diverse people. I assume, you know what diversity means. Not everyone speaks or writes as your Grandpaa  did and taught you.  
Of course i have my own brain to analyse stuff like this and again it's YOU who thinks HE wasn't so good([>D-F<]~Dingo: I think, and he wasn't that good.), so that's your opinion again and i have no issues with that. Think whatever you like!  

[{>FuRY<} Viktor]

This website will depend on YOUR opinions and suggestions!  Your posts in the forums will not go unnoticed or ignored.  We want an accurate list and accurate records.  Feel free to talk sh*t all you want in the forums, as long as it has a purpose relevant to the topic.
I suppose you have read this as mentioned on
the main page or you could tell me who fits in
“YOUR”.

[[>D-F<]~Dingo~]

[X-CON]~Lord Burek~ wrote

-Seventh, the Almighty Dingo. I'm a bit surprised by you'r approach in all this. Maybe you think I was medium, maybe you don't think thats you'r opinion and i respect it. Tell me one player from my ERA who could beat me and i couldn't beat him? Sure you can see few videos on youtube versus me, but those were all TOP Experts, but ask yourself how many times did i beat them?

[X-CON]~Lord†Burek~

I can say you were very civil with your post. What approach in all this are you referring to? Me not mentioning you? I roughly remember playing with you, and I remember you being pretty good, but my memory of you is more from when you were newer, and when you probably weren't at your best. I saw that you were listed as one of the top players in no f on some site for 2013, so I think that's notable (although not a lot of experts were listed in that period).

But anyway, that brings me to another point. This is HL's list, which we are contributing our opinions too. It includes a lot of older players because HL played with a lot of older players. But newer GR players have made their lists to. Feanor has made his list, and a few others as well (which btw, I'm pretty consistently put somewhere between top 2 and 5 in these lists!), but from what I've seen, they stop at about 2013. Are there some from 2014-onward that idk about? If SHC continued to thrive and continued to be such a golden age for SHC, why did nobody care to rank newer players anymore after 2013?

I think that it's pretty undeniable that the community competition level and liveliness was lesser in at least some of the years between 2014 and 2019, as it was between 2009-2012, or definitely 2002-2007. Would you disagree that there weren't many periods after 2013 where the community looked like it was on its downside? When I popped in, I hardly ever saw any high level matches going on, and there was definitely only a small handful of people that could play anything besides no fs. I'm interested in your opinion on this, especially since you started in 2010.

[[X-CON]~Lord Burek~]

Thanks you very much for kind words, and for noticing me, at least.

Dingo says: Me not mentioning you?
Answer: you couldn't ever mention me, because i never parttook in Fenas list! Notice, it was Fena who put me on the list, he never asked me if he can put me, simply I never asked him to put me there... You will find that 2013 list but i never challenged anyone nor anything what is connected with the list. So he randomly decided to put me on those spots. Yeah we played few matches together, but all were 2vs2 so we couldn't ever ''measure'' our strenghts between each other.

There was Jinzo's site If im not wrong he continued to do his own list. https://matteonardi8.wixsite.com/official-listshc you can definitely see the players, there were only few, and i know maybe 3 from that list.

Aye, I can agree on the last part which mentions when was SHC mostly alive. Period from 2014-2019 was maybe the least active. In my time from 2010-2013. the game was very very active. Before that I can't say anything because i didn't get my first internet till late 2009.

[[>D-F<]~Dingo~]

Np.

Related to this subject, I noticed a new forum that was created, titled "Make SHC Great Again," where it looks like someone was trying to replicate this forum (which also went mainly inactive for a few years). It looks like the new forum also failed to be active. The creator went on to write: *** This forum is closed on 23/05/2018 due to complete inactivity. It is a read-only forum now. It is also worth mentioning that Stronghold Crusader expert community is dead as well, since 2018 completely. *** ; here's the linK: https://shcrusader.boards.net/board/18/tournaments

Those are sad words. It looks like things are picking up a bit in 2020 though, so that's good. But look... Sounds like even newer players in 2018 were frustrated with the state of the community at the time. Add that to the pile of evidence that the recent era wasn't producing better top experts than those of the past...

[{>FuRY<} Viktor]

BEST/GOOD OF ALL TIMES  2010 TO 2020  NO FIRE RULES                                                

1. XCON MALY/FURY VIKTOR/FU BLACKY/X2X MASOSZ             95+

2. RIVA/ARAGORN/DINGO/TBAG/GERALT/SHORK                      92+

3. FEANOR/DEFS/SZEKY/SAITEK/TIGER/LIETUVIS/SAVOZ/NINYA/ARES/LIDER/ATTYLA          90+

4. IVAN/EREC/VLAD/FEARLESS/BUREK/COCAINE/LANCELOT/GALAHAD/DEXTER/SZLACH/KEKS   87+

5. FOREST/FEROCIOUS/ZYBUCHU/KAMISTRZ/POINTER/TONY/MIRON/MAPKM5/LEGOLAS/MYSTI/ACULA/
    UNFRAMED/REVOLUTION/IMMORTAL/IRAN/WEZIV/DANGERFIELD/AVENGER/DIMONICH/SMALLMAN  80+

6. SHEVER/GHOST-FREAK/LONE-WOLF/XCONRIP/ELVY/GREZECHU       75+

[MAX POWER]

XCON MALY I had 1-1 in tournament with him
RIVA i beated him all times we played, even him using aka
TBAG  in tournament i had 2-2 with him
EREC 3-2 in tournament i won

Ares, Vlad and Lancelot, however, killed me in tournaments.

I was proud when in one tournament someone put a fucked up map, and it was no ffs me vs dimonich, who was top2 at that time, and i wasn't even rated, and i killed him 200-20, where in standart rules obviously he would fuck me but still, experience helps in some of exclusive situations.

Just because this list appeared i wanted to brag that i did fine vs some of these guys. I never cared to play 1x1 but in tournaments i had to fight and none of the guys humiliated me.

But of course we agreed that it is subjective so i dont make a big drama out of it.
I was happy when at one stage feanor has put me as top 14 no f all times :D it was the highlight of my life. You have to appreciate small things in life lol

[{{DHK}}HolyLord]

I defeated most of these players in 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013, lol, many of them in 2v1 and 3v1s, so your dates might be a bit inaccurate.

[DH]

In my response to HL I said how people can live everyday life if you read it. As for the money, I worked some time on construction so I made some money that I don't need to ask my mother and father to give me euros. I do not have the magic wand to turn the Serbian standard into American, not even Croatian, but what I have is strength. Although I am young, all the doors to success are open to me. Sorry for the digression that distracted you from talking about who are the best in this game, which really doesn't interest me anymore.

[[>D-F<]~Dingo~]

1. XCON MALY/FURY VIKTOR/FU BLACKY/X2X MASOSZ             95+

2. RIVA/ARAGORN/DINGO/TBAG/GERALT/SHORK                      92+



- -- - -


This ranking is wrong for putting Maly so high, u so high, blacky so high, and for putting that tier at 95+. Masosz probably can be up there, but not as a 95. 92 tier is messed up because it puts tbag and me beneath those players, and puts geralt riva and aragorn on our level. I have no idea how good shork is, but that's probably fucked too.

try this:

Dingo/tbag/masosz/maly - 92
90 - geralt/shork/viktor
89 - aragorn/riva



and unframed: i think you were a good player and i remember you had some good wins from good players of the time. I think I would have given you some recognition in lists if I made any back in 2011/2012, but I think you avoided a lot of big/serious games, and you probably missed out on training opportunities because you played mostly with your LTU guys

[{>FuRY<} Viktor]

I wasn't being specific to any player with the timeline, but these players once were at the aforementioned level somewhere between all these years. You might have beaten them when they were beginners or could hardly play no fire rules but they learned enough after you went inactive (Yeah i have seen your SS of beating dingo and tbag 2v1). Even i could mention many in this list i had beaten with almost less than 10 kills but my overall judgement won't be biased towards what they had learned in all these years.      

[{>FuRY<} Viktor]

What i think is that you were surely a good player once but never really cared to prove yourself in front of others. I feel you had all the abilities but you never used them, also i kept in mind only players who played frequently no fire rules but if it would be all rules then ratings would be different.

[{{DHK}}HolyLord]

That's 100% wrong.  Almost all of my games against Masosz, Blacky, Dingo, Tbag, Geralt, Ares, Lider, Lietuvis, Riva, Savo, etc were when they were at their absolute best.  I even 2v1d many of these players at their peaks, but Tbag+Dingo was not one of those 2v1s, so it sounds like you're either full of bullshit or false memories.

[{>FuRY<} Viktor]

{{DHK}}Holylord: That's 100% wrong. Almost all of my games against Masosz, Blacky, Dingo, Tbag, Geralt, Ares, Lider, Lietuvis, Riva, Savo, etc were when they were at their absolute best

Yes you are the Best, peace. ✌️

[{{DHK}}HolyLord]

Wow I agree!  :D

[Fahad]

I don't know how much of you people remember me but those that do remember me being a pain the ass like DH. who idk for some reason is still trying to forcefully implant his subjective analysis of this game based on his interaction into everyone's mind. Shork,your topic has sparked so much responses and it is nice to see almost all(not everyone) replying and contributing responsibly. Before giving my opinion I would first like to walk you through my journey.
I joined this game in oct 2010 as a regular player(made acc in april-may of 2010) because of W@W Aragorn(Zeeshan) and W@W Adnan(his younger brother), we were friends way back and we got all got our net installed back in 2010. My first clan was brq-t led by Oxa and Fena, i made my way to {KoHS} founded by Sajjad and Arif. First online friends were {KoHS} Maxmood(later W@W Maxmood), Farhan(former W@W) and Usman(Later DHK Khalifa,former W@W).
In 2011, Our first experience of a real top expert was me sitting besides Xeshan(aragorn) and Adnan and we were watching this vid abt Dingo owning Ares in 1v1 and wondering how long it would take to be as good as Dingo.
I was inactive for a while and came back and made my way following Xeshan into KoRT clan led by KoRT BlackDragon(KOD Scorp). Xeshan was teaming up. I was teaming up with Adnan and we played vs DF Enigma(Rivaz) and Xeshan for the first time. I learnt abt this forum, learnt abt the pioneers of shc, X2X was the clan with the highest number of players(probably cuz Shazza put that gold/silver acc as reward for clan tourney) and I remember FD popping in a few times but he just wasn't into playing anymore. Xeshan teamed up with KoRT Shani, they synchronized their tactic for 2v2 won many matches and then Xeshan bringing up X2X Viper a player who almost beat their 2v2 team. Later on many of the paki players decided to make a clan for themselves and Xeshan left for W@W, Enigma joined from DF, Savoz was already under the wing of Szeky and Saitek. Fallen joined from X2X, Fearless was already in W@W with Savoz, I joined them at first but I later left cuz of BlackDragon cuz he had invested so much in me. I had a falling out with W@W players from then onwards. I stayed at KoRT out of my loyalty and respect for Scorp with whom I went to KOD later. I was an avg in No F still and to my luck the No F gameplay slowly started phasing out heavily influenced by the relatively higher amount of russian ukranian players who were impressed KorT Arthur Pendragon(KoRT Artorious) youtube channel. Arthur was enlisted in the army at that time I guess and I met MapkM5 who wasnt a  B-R member at the time.  
Now in 2012,Fena came up with this list idea, he had considered me a top in no ffs , almost all the (W@W)paki players went to DOTA, they dropped in from time to time, when W@W Savoz(their leader and "The Best of the Best" according to W@W) came, I took a shot at no f with a twist. I had challenged him in a desert map 3k 10pt with no f. He couldnt make eco, he couldn't take the risk on cats and I capitalized and won. You see the Irony dont you? Today, I would classify that as a cheat. I took the element of versatility there. You can't put a limit on the quantity arsenal of your adversary in real warfare, dictate it at best but let's be honest, u really can't. My highlight was beating Keks in 2012, a year back he was defeated by KoRT Zest(famous for rushing). Aragorn popped back in 2012, challenged me in no ffs 3k 10pt, he rushed and won and my obsession with my image as "Top Expert" ruined my real friendship at the time.
In 2013, I left around August, i was almost unbeaten for abt 1-2months and it got boring cuz Fena,Mapk and Ahilles left. Inostracevia,Defs, and Dimonich etc did stood out from the crowd but they weren't really that impressive and it is cuz your growth is proportional to the exposure you are getting against a good player.
I had an encounter with DHK player around this time(dont remember his name but his DHK player used to teach this DHK trainee(a 15 year old) physics in real life) and this is where the crazy happened, I had never seen so many xbows deployed on top of towers with shields and the same monotone strategy I used to win so many games repeatedly vs prominent players at that time like SmallMan,Inostracevia and his cousin Tanatos, some Yug players and many paki players(who were really abusive and childish). My ha shield camping was useless. So i cancelled the game during lag, blamed him for cancelling and went on to play with the other players.

I had a lot of karma done to me back in shc, Many russ players defeated me the same way i defeated Savoz, in an unorthodox rule with a fairly obvious advantage known to the most practiced player of the map and rules and shc had turned into a crazy circus in my opinion at that time(late 2012-2013)

Now I m going to be leaving a lot of players that were good like Maly, Viktor, Ado, Unframed, Crazylord, Lord-Mert, Geralt etc and state the best as objectively as I can.
 
If people use their intuition, they should be able to see clearly that a creator of this forum and historian of shc with so many facts doesn't really need to fathom myths of greatness. I am not going to be pointing fingers but u must see how maturely he responds compared to the later GODs of shc (from 2013-2020). All the records and tactics that he has registered are the most authentic I have seen given the no. of different players contributing.

In No FFs. I saw Arthur having so many aces up his sleeve but he really went mellow after returning from serving in army. Keks was pretty good but I don't think he would size up to the shit Arthur can pull. You would be surprised.
In No F, Dingo is the obvious choice, this guy single-handedly won the most heated clan war of my time between the XCon, DF and X-War. Later on he started dicking around in late 2011 to whole of 2012 and didn't really care if he won or lose.
I played with HL back in 2012 and he killed me under 10 kills in No FFs in 0pt xD. I swept that under the rug at the time and once again went on to playing with the rookies and winning. HL i partially agree with you putting Bar above u since I have always respected Scorp and even though I have won a few vs him but on his day,he could stretch the game long and win from there. I Respect your resolve and u might remember me arguing alot with you to put Scorp in your list and u disagreeing and no surprise, Scorp agreed that he wasn't upto the standard of the GSA generation even though he was a better player than me and I was considered modern top expert of No FFs(By that time only gameplay).

This has been a really long reply and I have objectively given my choices on the indexes of speed, control, influence and ofc their openness to a challenge.
If you would like I could answer you questions as objectively as I can. Anyway hope my post doesn't offend anyone and if it does, learn to take a joke.

[[D-F]~vlad]

Holylord and his friends - Best in game !!!

[{>FuRY<} Viktor]

I couldn't more agree!  

[[>D-F<]~Dingo~]

Thank you for your nice words. Tbag and Civo did a lot of work in our war with x-con also though . I also enjoy reading about people's experiences IRL and SHC over the years. I was always the only guy from my friend group that played SHC, so I always thought it would be cool if I had other irl friends that played shc online. As it happened though, I was one of the only shc players in the Western US (minus FD (who was Canadian) and DF sly (who actually lived not so far from me, but still 200ish miles)).

[MAX POWER]

Hilarious to see that at some point i had decided to make a top list of GR players with a smuggy title as if it's my awards and it even had fucking 110 replies lol

http://the-best-of-crusader.4467478.n2.nabble.com/UnFramed-Awards-td7582382.html

Back in time i didn't know that J@kubas was aka of Lietuvis and then Vendetta was also his aka when he played not giving a shit.

I shouldn't revive it though but it's funny how we used to trashtalk non stop.

Especially hilarious to read replies by fahad when i tried to mock him for being 50kg kid and he proved that he is actually 51, haha. Funny old days.

Funny what I had written what are noob players:

"This list is very likely to be updated. These are signs of a noob player:
1) I have no time, let‘s play 0 or 5 pt - it will be a quick game.
2) Playing 1x1 on  aw-lub 1x1 maps . Who the fuck can find out who is better player on a map created by noobish no f fs players clan?
3) I won on no ffs, you won at no f, so we are tied.
4) Never or couple times played on CL map. ( yes, if you don‘t even know what is CL, be sure you‘re a noob)
5) High res is for noobs"

Funny enough SHC has gone so badly that nowadays i think Crystal Lake wasn't  even played by any player for few years by anyone.
I am kinda proud of what I wrote. I think that SHC deserved so much more playing on high res maps. Useful time in SHC is for the battles, for economy (same in each game nowadays) -  much less so.