Does Turbo Mouse ruin Stronghold Crusader Gameplay?

[{{DHK}}LuIs7]

[Dr.Peabody]

I don't use it, but it's a strategy game - NOT a click-speed game, which is sorta has become.

[Trace me down ;)]

Yes it really does ruin it. Its a shame that unit building isnt automated like in Stronghold Legends so this problem would be solved once and for all. Its is very usefull directly after pt for rushing ure oppenent with like macemen, knight or surrounding catapults etc. Eco wise its not that effective again fast players.

[Lutel]

Of course it does! This game should be played without this turbo shit. It's hard to beat a person who is recruting troops faster than you not because of his skills. My fingers deserve to be respected ! ;)

[[PAK] Brock tree]

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[{GoC}-Nidream]

Nowday almost all " experts" use TM, what is a big shit. I don't use it and i don't need to. This game like Pea said is about strategy and not clicking. Rushing using TM is the most noobish think that i saw. And some of those " RUSHERS" call themselfs experts. lol.  Dont proclaim urself as great or expert when u use Tm to carry of a real expert.

Hf, stay in Peace

[((X2X))VIPER]

Almost all the "real experts" don't use it, or else they aren't real experts... now however, alot of you Fexperts use it, and some experts do as well, though it is dumb, its pointless and wrecks the integrity of how good you really are.

Just a little warning out there for you guys.. some of you will be caught, and you might end up being on you tube :)

so muahahaa(snort) that shit...

[........]

me with viper.... X2X clan Kort Clan  DHK blacky they should be exposed

WU li is a fine player but shazzabog group are cheaters (TM)

[Lutel]

Now you all gonna die in hell! Joke... I wonder why ppl use it. I never tried it and I really do not want to.

[Dr.Peabody]

SHC has, out of necessity, pushed me to develop a 13x+ per second click speed.  This is a huge advantage over those who can not yet click that fast.  Though, sometimes it feels like my hand is gonna fall off lol; I'd almost consider it a design flaw of the game to not have a multi-clicker, much like you'd see in other RTS (like holding down ctrl or shift, for example, to click 5 or 10 times.)

Let's stop for a second to define a cheat.  

What is a cheat?  I'd generally think of a cheat as a deliberate unfair advantage beyond certain defined boundaries of the game, usually by some aid to alter the game, else an exploitation of a glitch.  Is it cheating that I can click faster than another person?  No, of course not - that would fall under the category of physical skill.

What if, however, one had 2 mice?  That would then enable them to click faster than one with only a single mouse,  potentially giving a significant advantage.  But it seems silly to call someone a cheater because they have better hardware - two mice, just as it would be silly to call someone a cheater in a FPS game because they have a faster PC or internet connection.  Furthermore, no alterations are being made to the game in any way, and no glitches are being exploited.

What if one had a mouse that physically had a turbo feature?  Again, this would provide an advantage, but again it would seem silly to call someone a cheater because they have better hardware.  To make another analogy, it would be like calling an athlete a cheater because he has access to better training equipment.

Now let's look at the software side - a "turbo mouse" program.  This could be as simple as a macro.  Anyone can make a simple macro for their PC.  They could make a macro for multiple clicks.  They could make a macro that presses H for the keep and then scrolls up or down to instantly change taxes.  etc.

 - I know some of you may be thinking it, so I'll bring up another sports analogy:  Steroids.  Pretty much all athletes, theoretically, could use steroids as a "soft" aid to boost their performance, thus giving them an advantage.  This, however, is generally frowned upon in sports.  Before you go and make a link to "turbo mouse", though, I'll tell you that this is a straw-man.  The primary purpose behind banning steroid is an ethical issue related to physical, mental, and physiological health (but the actual effects are debatable.)  Case in point:  Protein shakes can also boost one's physical performance, but no one is gonna go out there and tell an athlete that they can't have one.

So, then, I must fall back of prior premises - said macros can be used any time and are not bound to the game nor alter the game itself in any way.

Protein shake : Steroids  
as
"Turbo Mouse" : Trainer  

It would then seem to me that "Turbo Mouse" is not, in fact, a "cheat".  However, it's still up to the game's community to decide if it's taboo or not, lol.

[=TKo= El-Lobo]

I agree with your definition Peabody but I believe the community should strive to create as level a playing field as possible. Like you have mentioned before certain glitches, like the double-wall constructions, have been received well within the community and yet it's truly an exploitation.
However, allowing for the use of the TM freely would create an unfair skill gap between those who have the software/hardware than those without it. One should concentrate on the strategies and dynamics involved with the game in order to progress and not any additional equipment. Furthermore, if certain "taboos" or restrictions are lifted then this game could easily resemble other RTS games that do not bar anything which help create such unfair advantages, sometimes even establishing an insurmountable skill gap between new and older players.
I'm more in favor with the development of the physical skill of clicking that progresses over an extended period of time than anything that gives one the instant ability to do so. This should also be apparent especially for a player such as yourself who has refined this skill over the course of a few years, be mindful that it doesn't have to take that long. Or simply stated one cannot become, and should not recognized as, an expert player within only a short span of time like say a few months, and the use of a TM allows for some players to make this claim because of their advantage over their opponents. Indeed by definition it is not a "cheat" but it does create rather poor standards.

[((X2X))VIPER]

I would have to disagree with your post Peabody, though a nice thought, I would not say "protein shakes to steroids, as TS is too Trainer"

I do not see any way to say a 'program' that is aided at giving you a benefit other then what is created by the developers is anything other then a cheat.

You make it sound like i can compare TM like you compare hardware, like a laser mouse instead of a ball mouse, or a slow computer to a fast computer.  This is not the case from my point of view.  Game developers put on the back computer recommendations for the game, such as 256 MB of ram, 20 gig hard drive, etc.   But they also intended it to play on BETTER hardware as well. They assumed hardware would develop with the game, and it has, my SHC runs so much smoother on 8 gig of ram then it ever did on my old 512 MB of ram or 256.  Is that cheating that i have a better PC ?  No, its the intention that the game will be played on various PC's with various hardware differences.

My point is TM is not hardware, its program made by a Polish dude ( BLAME THE POLAKS I SAY !!), that allows for fast clicking.  I doubt there was any intent for this to be implemented into the game by the developers.  Just like there was never intent for Trainers, or any other software manipulation.  That is in fact cheating, until the time the developers make their own version of this crusader5click program it will always be cheating.  

Now if they game players wanted to use it and EVERYONE agreed, then fine, people would use it with no regret, but that will never be the case as long as there is 1 person who thinks its cheating, and I will always be on that side.

[Dr.Peabody]

I would then have to bring up the case of 2 mice or a mouse with a physical turbo - would these be considered cheating?

Also, when they developed the game, I doubt that they foresaw the metagame evolving to the point of buying 300++ wood or 200+ troops at a time.

[[>D-F<]~Dingo]

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[{{DHK}}HolyLord]

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[=N2N= Yasko]

I've never had a turbo mouse, and never will.  I think it's cheating, as should anyone else, unless it's confirmed all parties of a game have a turbo mouse, and it's unanymously agreed upon it's use.  In the real world, ofcourse this would never happen.  Let's keep it simple:  If you're augmenting your clicking speed with a device other than your own flesh, then it's an unfair advantage.  A single click mouse is the standard, and having a 100 dollar single click optical mouse versus a 20 dollar single click ball roller won't make a lick of difference....they're all single click.  TM is a definite cheater.

[{{DHK}}WarriorWithin]

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[MasterOfCrusader]

Fast fingers thats the most lame excuse ever From godfater tm himself. Only lowlife praise themselves god.

[zeus]

woooooooooooow so because my mouse has an auto fire feature that mkaes me a cheat lol get a life noobs

[^IRAN^]

:P